27. ADHD - Myths, Misconceptions & a Life Changing Diagnosis with MaryJo Anderson

You've said it before. Maybe quietly, maybe to a close friend, maybe just in your own head.

"I think I might have ADHD."

And then nothing happened. There was nobody to follow up. Nobody to sit down with you and actually explored it. So you kept going, kept functioning, kept wondering.

This episode is for you.

Why This Episode Matters

Adult ADHD, especially in women, is one of the most underdiagnosed conditions in medicine right now. Not because it is rare. Because it looks different than the textbook picture. It does not always look like a kid bouncing off the walls. In adults, and especially in women, it looks like a brain that never really quiets down. It looks like being brilliant in a flow state and completely scattered the rest of the time. It looks like anxiety that nobody can quite explain. It looks like years of wondering why you can be so capable in some moments and so frustratingly inconsistent in others.

Dr. Mark Su and co-host Mary Jo Anderson sit down for the kind of conversation most people have never had with a doctor, honest, unhurried, and grounded in real clinical experience.

What You'll Learn in This Episode

What ADD and ADHD actually are in adults, and why the distinction between the two matters more than most people realize.

Why women are far more likely to have the inattentive type, the one that flies under the radar for decades because it does not look like classic hyperactivity.

What the hyperfocus and flow state experience really means, why it feels like euphoria, and why it is not a contradiction of the diagnosis.

Why ADHD and anxiety so often travel together, and what actually happens to the anxiety when the underlying ADHD is addressed.

How diagnosis actually works, no blood test, no imaging, just a thorough clinical picture and a validated assessment that can be done from home.

Why getting evaluated is not about adding a label. It is about unlocking the potential that has always been there.

Key Moments in This Episode

Dr. Su explains why people with ADHD can hyperfocus for hours on something they love but cannot hold onto a grocery list for three aisles.

Mary Jo shares what it felt like to finally have someone explain her own experience back to her, including the creativity, the noise, the inconsistency, and the years of wondering.

Dr. Su shares a patient story about a junior in high school pulling D's who, after finally getting clarity and support, landed a competitive leadership position at a major national company.

Two long-term patients in their forties, evaluated and treated as adults, both said something Dr. Su says he will carry for the rest of his career. For the first time in my life, I feel comfortable in my own skin.

Dr. Su's Perspective

This is not about pharma versus non-pharma. It is not about conforming to a label or a system. It is about one thing: helping you get the most out of the life you want to live. When the noise quiets down, when the anxiety starts to lift, when you stop dropping the balls and start trusting yourself again, that is not a small thing. That is your life opening up.

If you have spent years functioning below what you know you are capable of, this conversation is worth your time.

Take a Next Step

Have a question for Dr. Su? Once a month, Dr. Su opens one hour to five people only. Real questions, real answers, real direction. 

Book your spot: rootseekhealth.com/askdrmark

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Connect with Dr. Su: rootseekhealth.com | @drmarksu @rootseekhealth

Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only.  Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner. This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.

Transcript

Episode Welcome and ADHD Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:09

I'm Dr. Mark Sue and welcome to the Functional Medicine Reality Podcast. Join me and our community weekly as we bring you unfiltered health from inflammation to longevity. Real stories, real people, real solutions. Experience real life health changes from both patients and practitioners. And learn how to turn cutting-edge information into real results in your own life so you can feel better, live longer, live healthier, and be confident and clear in your healthcare choices. Let's get real and get results.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

All right, welcome again to the Functional Medicine Reality Podcast. I'm Dr. Mark Sue, your co-host. This session here today with Mary Jo Anderson, also co-host. You've met uh both of us before. We started in the first few sessions with Mary Joe talking about her own personal journey through uh chronic Lyme disease, and we've since branched into other areas of health and wellness. And uh today we're talking about ADHD. ADHD. It would have been really funny if like it was like, uh yeah, remind me again. What was it? So we've we've bantered a little bit, you and I, about uh about this topic, among other things. What's your recall of why we landed on this as a possible topic to discuss? If you if you maybe you don't recall.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

I think I recall just over several conversations of the past year, I bring it up like, oh, it must be my ADHD. And I think your response has always been, well, what do you mean by that? And like, well, I don't know what I mean by that. Because I'm not formally diagnosed, but it is something that I've always kind of said in passing and that I have been curious about. So the fact that we can sit here and have this conversation about ADHD. I'm not sure I'll get a full diagnosis today, but I would love to learn a little bit more about it because the little that I do know, it it resonates just with my my me personally. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

That's that's exactly it. For me, that's my recall anyway. Uh look, I mean, you and I both know with our kids at their age, people are like walk around all the time, like, my anxiety, my depression, my OCD, my ADD, whatever. Like, you know, it's kind of like a glib thing to say. I don't know. I mean, for me, personally, professionally, when adults say that, I kind of look at it a lot of times in the same kind of ticket with a grain of salt. But yeah, somewhere along the way you said it enough times that I don't think the first time, but at some point I I did I did stop at pause and kind of go, uh Yeah, what do you mean by that? Or why do you say that, right? Exactly. So, okay, we just jump in right there.

When Adults Say It’s My ADHD

SPEAKER_02 2:32

All right. So why don't you give uh let's go ahead and can you describe so why don't you explain for me like why why you say that? What's what's your experiences? What are your experiences where you kind of say that? I'm sure I'm not the only one you say that to, no doubt.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Why do you why do you question ADD or what is it, what do you understand or have awareness about with ADD, ADHD that you say to yourself, like, yeah, it kind of resonates.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Well, can I first ask you a question? Yeah. What does ADHD stand for? Cool. What does it stand for? Right. So I have always attention deficit, hyperactivity, disorder. There you go. Okay. Bing ping. So star for you. I know. Well, I right when I was like coming into this conversation, I was like, do I even know what that stands for? And yes, I do, right? I've heard ADHD so many times or ADD, right? Like I've kind of read a little bit about it. I think I started diving in a little bit or or wanting to understand a little bit more when I have my son Jackson. Because I I don't for I can't diagnose him or he's never been diagnosed, but I did I did notice some hyperactivity. I noticed, you know, he's a boy, he's a 20-year-old boy now. So there was definitely some things. And and I think at that point, he's again, he's gonna be 20 years old, but 20 years ago, or let's just say 15 years ago, this conversation about OCD, ADD, ADHD, all these these um these things were definitely becoming more pro the conversation around it has become more prominent around mental hellness, mental wellness, all the things, right? So I think that's when I first started hearing it.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Question for you. Yes. On that side, on the moment pause. Was it something you'd thought about with yourself before it came up with in context of Jackson at five-ish, six-ish? No.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Okay. No, I don't I don't think I knew too much about ADHD before I kind of started reading a little bit about it. Um, yeah, I'll I'll date back like maybe 15 years ago when I had my son and I was noticing some stuff with him, and I and then I quickly noticed everything that I was noticing about him, I was like, oh god, I'm that same exact way with a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

There you go. That's the I hear that all the time. Right. A lot of adults, parents in this last 15, 20-ish years get diagnosed because their kids got diagnosed.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Right. Now, so next question on that, if I and I don't want to pause this too far, do realist too much. When you say it started coming up in question, was it coming up by like a pra a physician, like your pediatrician for him or family practice, whoever it was? Or was it that friends or family or who? What how was that coming up?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

It never came up with our doctor, it never came up really with family. I think around 15 years ago was when the conversations just started happening where I was having maybe it was another parent had been talking about it because maybe her child was going through it. So I was being exposed more to like just just simple conversations and maybe some stuff that was online because I was at that point, whether it be Facebook or Instagram or all these different avenues, like the conversations do live on those platforms. So yeah, it was it was something that I was identifying maybe just in my personal life. I'm with my child, and the conversation was just kind of like lingering around me in certain places. Sure. Um, and so yeah, a lot of the things that I was kind of diving into or or realizing about maybe Jackson was spot on with me as well, too. So I never I actually had never had any conversations with my physician, um, my primary care or anybody about this. Um, I had seen a therapist for many years. Um, I don't think I really talked so so much about that. I was talking more about like childhood trauma and other things for many years, but not specifically about ADHD.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

So winding back to the first you asked about definition or you know, what does ADHD

ADD vs ADHD and Quiet Signs

SPEAKER_02 6:02

stand for? I was assuming you were gonna ask what's the difference between ADD and ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

I would love to know that.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

How about so if I asked you like what's your awareness of the what does ADD stand for?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

So it's the same just without diapers. Okay. Right. Attention deficit disorder. Okay. That's it. ADD attention deficit disorder. Okay. So Alright, so let me uh we don't have to go down the road, but so let's just, for all intents and purposes, right now, between you and I and then whoever else might be listening later, ADD and ADHD, we're gonna we're gonna call them the same. Okay. Let me just blank blankly, uh categorically say here the difference historically is just does the person exhibit hyperactivity disorder, uh hyperactivity symptoms, fidgety, restless, cancer still, versus they don't have the hyperactivity symptoms. Okay. And I and I'll just make the one plug professionally, because I talk about this a lot with historically patients that ADD argued meaningfully, meaningfully arguably is harder to diagnose than ADHD. Because if you can't see it, okay. And we this might be for another time, but women are more apt statistically and observationally to manifest ADD versus the guys are a little bit more likely, and we're talking about kids mostly, are gonna manifest the ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

And so what does that ADD look like, whether it's a boy or a girl, you know, or at birth, okay, male or female at birth. The person who has ADD is it's more in their head. They're not outwardly looking hyperactive, but they're the one who the teachers are going like, they have so much potential, and they're not leading up to the potential. And, you know, then they look like they're paying attention and they're super well behaved and they're following all the instructions on in the class and all this other stuff. Like they they're all well behaved, they're like well-mannered and blah, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, man, they're so disorganized and they they look like they're spacey, or they sometimes have a nickname of space ball or whatever the case may be, right? Because you can't see what's going on inside the head.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

All right. So that's I'll just make that quick snapshot.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

But for right now, between you and I, whatever we say ADD, ADHD, we mean one and the same.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

So going from there, yeah. Let's get back to so going back to the where we started. What do you experience in your life that makes you question?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Hmm. So I think when I had my first child, I realized that like life does get a little bit crazy, right? Like there's definitely a lot more responsibility in having children and the life that Bryce and I have created over many years. There's there's just so many different avenues where we're just busy, right? Like kids is one thing, business is another thing, family life, um, extended family life, there's just so much going on all the time. And to manage all of it has always been really difficult for me. And so current day, you know, 20 years of having children and being mom and all the things, I noticed it in

The Focus Struggle and Superpower Story

SPEAKER_00 8:53

so many avenues of my life, yet I'm like, oh, well, there's so much going on. So is that ADHD, or is that just there's so much going on? But then when I kind of relate it back to pre-children and adolescent years and all those years, I'm like, oh gosh, yeah, like I've always felt that way. I've always felt like there's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

And I grew up in a family where the, yeah, we were busy and we played a lot of sports and we were very active and we traveled a little bit. Yeah, there was a lot going on then too. But you know, I kind of go back to like me in the classroom. Was I fidgety? Was I not focused? Um me all through high school or college years. And I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, I was not focused. I don't think I've ever been really truly focused, right? Like that word always resonates so deeply with me. And that's a word that comes up when I do read about ADHD or or AD ADD. It's like uh or hyper focused, right? Like, yeah, I I that that is an underbelly of like exactly how I feel my entire life. Sure. And that I can focus, but it's definitely in pockets. Yeah. And I do feel very unfocused a lot. Um, and so I don't know if that's the best way to describe like what's going on in my in my brain, but that's kind of how I rationalize it to some degree.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

So maybe a next question I might throw out is how much does it how much does it bother you?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

It's funny over it all. Yeah, it's funny over the years that I have said, oh, it's my ADHD, and I like without a a real diagnosis or knowing so so much about it, I kind of like say it not in a joking way. I I say it like, yeah, that's that's how I am.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

And there's a I did see a uh TED talk on this, which I think I've shared it with you before. And if I haven't, I will. But it was on uh this I wish I knew her name right now, but um the TED talk I watched on a very successful woman that spoke of her AD ADHD. Um and I I heard it or watched it, I heard it and listened and watched it uh maybe about like 10 years ago. And it was the first time I had heard someone speak so eloquently about ADHD on such a personal level. And she just kept calling it her superpower and her success and her creativity and all these things she attributed to her ADHD and her superpower. Yeah. And she also described it as a way of like she never knew she had this. So everything that she had done in her life, she had kind of like not cut corners, but like she figured out ways to do it where she didn't even know she was doing that. And the moment I heard this TED talk 10 years ago, it was like, it was just so spot on. I'm like, that that is exactly how I navigate. And that um So you're saying this is my superpower too? Yeah. So I I sorry if I'm being too loud. No, but yeah, yeah, it's something where it's like I don't know enough about ADHD. I don't I'm not probably diagnosed, but it also something like I when I've heard other people talk about it, it resonates. It feels like that's exactly how I am. And so I've kind of maybe self-diagnosed, and I actually feel like it's my superpower. I it's something that's super quirky about me. It's uh how my mind works.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

I So what why do you say for you, not for that woman, for you, why do you think of it as a superpower for you?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

I just think I'm a highly creative person. Okay. I'm a little bit of a visionary, and I feel like Did that woman equate create Shavedi too? Yeah, she did. Yeah, she spoke of that as like, you know, one of the the top things that that she is that's helped her navigate her entire life. Um and it is something that um, you know, as an adult, I I think I I'm I'm I'm I can say that I am highly creative.

SPEAKER_04 12:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

And I'm proud of how creative I am. I don't think I've inertured it fully in its entirety, like in in the most the I haven't reached the fullest potential of my creativity, but it's something that I'm like, oh God, is this ADHD? Is this part of me?

SPEAKER_02 12:33

There's a part of you that is a question, or you've developed some internal messaging on some level that ADD and creativity go together. And do you think of that I I'm in a binary system here, in a yeah, in a dichotomy construct. Do you think of it as I favor ADD because I have the creativity? And or the opposite, like if I it justifies me not wor not really looking into and worrying about it. Like versus like, you know, meaning meaning, oh, if I look into and get diagnosed, then do I feel a little responsible or compulsion or you know, to have to do something about it, and then does that have a negativity?

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yeah, exactly. I feel like I I've n haven't really dove into like a full diagnosis or exploring it so much. Maybe there's a little bit of underlying fear that if I, you know, if I was formally diagnosed and and understood it that I don't I don't know, maybe I would perceive it or or navigate through that in a tiny bit of a negative way. Yeah. But you know, the m the little that I do know about it and and all these people that do talk about it, talk about it in such a beautiful way that um That's cool. I kind of like, I'm gonna write that way instead of learning too much more and uh having it messed with me. Um I don't know. I kind of, you know, I just I think I've attached myself or leached onto it.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

So going back to the question, do you have any do you have any curiosity or want to, you know, do you do think of it if there's a is there any kind of downside to your awareness?

SPEAKER_00 13:55

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Okay, cool. All right. So how about shifting elsewhere then? Uh how about other people? Have you had have you observed other experiences, other people's experiences? Family members, friends, whatever, or people you've whatever, TikToks or whatever, people who talk about on the flip side, they were diagnosed and then treated like it was a benefit, and if so, in what way?

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Mm-hmm. Yes, I have had enough conversations where I one of my closest and dearest friends who lives in town here, who runs a very successful business, who's again, she's one of my closest friends. Her and I have talked about this for so many years, and she has ADHD too, diagnosed, has is you utilizes medicines to um to support her health and her ADHD and has had huge success with it. Okay. And she's always the one like, you should get on this medicine, you should do this. This is gonna be so good for you. It's been life changing for me. So, like her hearing her positive experience is is actually really inspiring and enlightening in ways. I just haven't, you know, taken not the risk, I just haven't taken the dime into doing it myself. But yeah, I've been in conversation with someone who's uh on the flip side of it, yeah, um, been formally diagnosed and is uh is supported through medicine and other ways to stay focused and and she's been very frutitious with it. So it's good. And I've I've been in conversation with fructitious fru frutitious, like lots of fruit, yeah, bearing lots of fruit with it, getting things done. Frutitious, yeah. Yes. Um is that even a word in the channel? I don't know. Yeah, I use it all the time. My vocabulary is not my strongest. Okay, my strongest, so me neither. Me neither. But um, and I have been in enough conversations with people that have um sons, specifically sons that have been diagnosed through early early education or even in high school that have been diagnosed with ADHD and it are supported through medicine due that has really been beneficial to their children. So I've had enough conversations with other other parents about it. So I don't know personally, but I, you know, I'm I'm I'm not against the conversation or exploring it more. It maybe it's gonna take this conversation to even, you know, push that envelope. But yeah, yeah, I've been I've been in enough conversations with other parents and other women in my life that that speak of it, speak of it very highly, speak of it as their superpower, speaking of of it through a proper diagnosis, speaking of it through medicine that has helped them, you know, supported their health. So it's yeah, it's a conversation that I'm in quite frequently. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

So where should we go with this? Yeah. What kind of where where would you like to go with that? I'm because I don't want to just Yeah, I could I could take I mean I have a this is a very, very common I actually love this topic. I love the topic for money reasons. I'm not gonna get into rabbit holes right now.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

I kind of want to get into the rabbit hole ball.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Well, I won't let you lean on the where we go, which rabbit hole we go down. So what what why don't you throw, do you have do you have a um no pressure, right? Do you have a particular topic that's like strikes you most about a I'd like to know more about that, or like how come people think this or this doesn't seem like it makes sense to me or whatever the case might be?

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Specifically with ADHD. Yeah. So one of the things that I've noticed like a symptom, which is just a personal symptom, is you know, when you're when you're focused, right? When you're hyper-focused on something. And that's something that I've realized just in my personal life. I've become so hyper-focused on something, and I can I can identify that I'm hyper-focused, I can achieve anything when I'm in that space.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Yeah. Flow state as a guy. It is like super flow state.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Unbelievable. And when I'm in that space, I'm I just feel so unstoppable.

Hyperfocus, Motivation, and A Noisy Mind

SPEAKER_00 17:25

It's like I I want to be in this space. I'm I'm in a my mind is doing something highly creative and the execution of it with help, you know, whether it's an event or anything, it's it's it's highly produced, yeah. You know, in in and I'm I'm fascinated by that state that I can be in. And the question is And the the question is when I'm not in that state, right? Which is more so I'm not in that state.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Where I'm I feel like a little disorganized, I feel not focused, I feel like I'm pulled in a million different directions. Yeah. Like that, it just seems so drastic. And so I sometimes I'm like, you know, is it it almost seems manic at times? And I'm like, I know I'm classifying myself as ADHD, and maybe I'm not looking for a diagnosis, but maybe I am. But it seems like a little man, there just there's such disparity between the two.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

And so the question is what?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

The question is, does that sound like ADHD to you? Or again, I've I feel like I've pinched pigeonholed myself in identifying that that's kind of like what I am.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Is it consistent with is it? Is it consistent with that question, right? With AD, yeah. Broadening it maybe is that a common experience for someone who has ADD or ADHD? All right.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

That's something that I don't have, I don't get that question answered a lot in my regular conversations with people.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

So briefly, I'll explain the short version, it's not it's not uncommon. That that topic about the flow state. I was I was just watching a movie last night that someone's talking about that. So what movie? Actually, come think of it. Well, I was I was watching F1 again. Okay. F1 movie. And it's at the end when they're like, he's flying, right? When he's in that like zone. Yeah. Right? They didn't say flow state, but you know what I mean. Right. So so just remind me of that when you said that. Okay. I think the question I get professionally more often is if I have ADD or ADHD, how is it that I can hyperfocus on something? Like I I will never forget years ago in the previous office I was employed at, there's a middle school kid, and the parents were like, he's gotta have ADHD because he's all over the built-place. But like, how is they can watch a baseball game on TV for three and a half hours? It's baseball. Where you know, baseball is kind of like lost its right. If you have the patients to watch baseball, it's a middle school kid watching baseball for three and a half freaking hours. Yeah. The observation, I don't know how much we totally understand this, but the short answer to me is the observation is um it doesn't mean people can't focus ever, right? In fact, one of the books that uh my you know real good friend, you know, past uh first boss George Papanicelo has talked about recurrently that the the author gets very much into that uh, hey, you know, we can look at we can frame ADDHG understanding and in a lot of different ways. Okay. One of those ways is like it's really more like those those folks have to be talking about superpower. They just they learn differently and they retain information differently, and it's very much more driven by intention and motivation. If you don't have something you're motivated about, like it's just right, I just don't attach it to a reach. But if you you get that thing that the person's interested in, absolutely you can hyperfocus, right? And for that kid that I'm thinking about, he just loved baseball. So even though it's it seems boring to everybody else, he could hyperfocus on it, right? Whatever it is for you, whatever it is, when you tap into that moment and you're just in that space, yeah. And what commonly happens for people just one level further is so yes, people can hyperfocus, and sometimes it's almost like the adults will experience something like the kids. Like remember, we all most everybody's had this experience with the kids at some point. Like, it's time to go. No, no, I can't go, I can't go, right? It's just a matter of how much they're gonna fight you if they can't transition well. Right. So in this case, when someone's hyperfocused, a lot of times, even as adults, it it feels to me like that that kid who can't transition is like, no, no, no, I can't let go. Like, wait, you're an adult, you can do this. This is not you're not a child anymore, right? But how come I can't really transition out? From my, I've said this too, I don't I'm not diagnosed with ADD ADHD, okay? But I've seen a lot of patients with it, and I can give a different story and go on it for myself. The the key here is I've said to patients, like, it almost feels to me like is there an internal like refuge moment that you're experiencing? Are you is your brain suddenly in that flow state and you just want to stay there? You know, and I don't want to transition out, like it's it's a place of peace. Okay, because what I what I find with a lot of ADD ADHD patients is kids or adults, the adults are more aware of themselves. It's just there's so much freaking noise in my head. There's just so much noise. Right. Right. And a lot of times you're so used to it. The older you are, you get used to it, right? So you don't really have full awareness of that. Right. And so when you're not having that noise, it's heavenly, right? And if you're especially doing something you love, which often matches with that, like was it like watching baseball for like you had or in a creative moment and you're like just seeing stuff happen? Man, it's like euphoria. It's like I could I could do anything right now. I'm in heaven, literally. Right. And so of course you don't want to leave that spot. And I wonder if it's more like that brain sort of just, hey, I've found a good spot. I'm at rest, I'm at peace, leave me alone. You know, and look, we're all humans. It's not like it's 24 7. Right. That's the bottom line.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

When you're in that state though, when I'm in that euphoric state, that's when the creativity switches on, and that's where. Almost the brain starts going in a like wild direction. Sure. Otherwise, I feel like when I'm not focused, I feel like I don't I don't know what's going on. Sure. You know?

SPEAKER_02 22:29

So there's questions, there's a there's a question, right? You're asking, like, is it consistent for someone who has ADHD to have hyper focus or flow state moments or whatnot? Yeah. Do you do you worry that um I'll throw this reciprocal question? Do you worry that we already talked about like you you might have a little bit of a uh w internal worry that um you may not have as much creativity if you were to say quote unquote treat. Right, right. And I'm not talking about pharma, non-pharma, whatever, whatever way. If you treated ADD in some way, you might not be as creative. But uh do you anything else there where you might worry like am I not able to be in as intense of a flow state or you know, as I'm not that there's something else like I can't access it or anything else? Is there maybe that's too much?

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Not really. I don't no, yeah, I'm not too worried about that.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Good. All right. How about any other kind of off the top head of your head questions or myths, uncertainties, observations around this?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

I feel like when I was in high school, I always go back to this because now as an adult where I've identified so many different things about myself, those those things that I have identified as an adult of not being focused or hyper-focused obviously looked a lot different than when I was like 15 and 16 years old, right? And so I I noticed a lot of those similar things within Jackson, right? And he's 20 years old. We've talked about it very openly on and off. Um, and that conversations around a lot of parents with young boys, I think, um, or maybe girls. I'm just familiar with the the boy conversation.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Um, and so when I and it when I go back to like the 15, 16, 17-year-old Mary, right? Mary Joe, and um I kind of identify like, oh yeah, that was that normal, was that normal? You know, all these kind of feelings around was I normal or not normal. It always I always go back to the state of, you know, what my what my grades told me or what my performance in certain things told me like about myself. And so I was like a C student all through school, right? And I'm like, oh God, why why would say a C student? Like did I never got an A in anything? Like, what was that? I never, you know, I never failed anything, but I never got A's or B's, which seems like, you know, I could focus on some things. Was I not interested in anything? You know, I I can't, but I always go back to this feeling of um when I was in middle school and high school, I remember like everything did seem while I was in a seat, having to be at school.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Obviously, it wasn't didn't seem very interesting, but like not moving my body, right? Like I always kind of like understand that my body was not moving. I was told to sit in a seat for eight hours a day, obviously get up for lunch and snack and do a few things. But I always go back to this feeling of like as an adult being reflective on those years and now having three children that are going through school is like, my God, like we're not meant.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

A restrictive feeling.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

We're not meant. We never were meant to sit in a seat for eight hours. Now, as an adult, I'm like, well, there's many, you know, people have to sit in seats for eight, 10 hours when they're working as adults now, right? And I'm like, I can't have them ever doing that, right? And when I'm reflective about my childhood years, I'm like, I wasn't meant to do it then, and I'm not meant to do it now.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

And now I have three children who have gone through traditional school who have done that, right? And one who I think has gotten by through school in different ways and learned kind of the ways to get around things, which is my Jackson and and and Reese has kind of you know managed her way through school and does well. And my little guy who um, you know, is in elementary school and still, he's in fourth grade. And I think he has these ways where he's just does not want to be in a seat. Yeah. Is that ADHD? Or is that just like what my brain's going to now, which is no, we're not as a human race, yeah, meant to do this. Yeah. And so the ADHD conversation becomes a little bit even bigger in my mind, yes, and a little bit even more complex when I start really thinking about ADHD or ADD or these things that like the human body might might have never been designed to do. No, it's it's and I don't this isn't a question, it's just like a reflection of when I think about my ADHD or being diagnosed or wanting to go down that path of of learning more about it. Yes, I do, but I also go back to this really reflective state about humanity and like where we started, where we are, yeah, where we're maybe going. And it's really complex. It becomes a much bigger conversation for me.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

I think about this, I think about this often as well. I I've I've been I've been raised these questions uh by parents or or individuals as adults, whatever, right? Um it's not an overly common question because I think it's it's too too big, but uh I'm gonna frame that out as in the the topic that you're bringing up for me is am I just doing am I am I having to do something? Am I having to alter my sort of godwiring or genetics or whatever, my individuality to conform to society

School Fit, Sitting Still, Self Worth

SPEAKER_02 27:17

because of the way society operates? Yes, right. And that's a that's a very big topic.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

I I I this is a topic that is recurring. Oh yeah, in especially in all the ways. Yeah, especially now that I've decided to homeschool my little guy. Yeah, there's just enlightenment that's surrounding the entire uh unschooling and now homeschooling environment that I'm in.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

And it's raising awareness around everything. Yeah. Physical body, mental state, freedom. Like it is a it's a huge conversation. And so, like, I know we started off with ADHD. I had so many questions, so many thoughts about it. Yes, but like it always ties back to this more reflective state that I've been living in for a couple of years now, which is just you know, why was I so unfocused in school? You know, why are other kids supposed to be so good at it? Why am I not so good at it? I it sh it my grades have shown the whole way through that I've just been mediocre at everything, yet I really don't think I'm a mediocre person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

So may I may I have may I have permission? I'm gonna if I can j jot through a few bullet points. But I want you to interject at any point. Yes. Okay. And um because I don't want to just yeah, I just don't want to I don't want to like Did I just take us left? No, not at all. Okay. No, in fact, it's it's more that big topic about conforming to society and all that, that's that's so big that and I don't I personally don't have like what do you do about that? Okay, I mean that that goes into like on the extreme side, like, hey, we can go move out of the country, we can move to Timbuktu, rural, pick your state, you know, some s very poorly dense, you know, ex opposite of dense populated state, right? And live off the grid, if you will, or on the peripheries of the grid, right? But uh that's not the that's a sh a a very minuscule minority of people who are gonna do that, right? So it take for me, it just takes a lot of individual internal security and conviction to live that life, especially in the context of other people who are living more of a quote unquote mainstream conformity to society. Right. And I'm not looking at that as a value judgment of good or bad or whatever. It's just it's just very, very difficult. Right. And I'm and I find those people very, very inspiring, actually, you know, to be so anti-establishment. There's a little bit of an anti-establishment granted, right? You know, to my to my personality. So I I love that, but I don't know that I could do it, which is probably why I like it. Same. Right. Same. I'll live vicariously through you. Yes. I want more of you in my life, yeah. So I can feel like I'm like that, but I'm not. Exactly. All right. But maybe we are. So here's here's a few bullet points, and I think they'll tell tie in several things we're talking about. Number one, let's go back to like how someone diagnosed, okay? Because you just starting where you say, like, yeah, there's a lot I haven't really looked into. There's no blood testing, there's no image testing, right? X-rays, MRIs, or whatever. There's no tests that like confirm ADD. It's a clinical diagnosis of questions, observations, etc. There are certain research-validated survey scales. We can send the scales to the teachers and to the parents that we're talking about to kids and all that kind of thing. We use, I use a research-validated um test that we could just do on the computer for 30 to 40 minutes. It's it's just cheap and easy. Okay.

Diagnosing ADHD Without Blood Tests

SPEAKER_02 30:18

It's not expensive. The neuropsych eval, are you are you familiar with that? I've heard of it, yeah. Like schools are, at least in our state, are legally obligated to if if there's enough defensible reason that it's warranted for that child, then this the uh the towns, I believe I think it's state law that the towns have the the public schools have to provide for that, right? But there's a lot more pushback. Okay, insurance companies aren't plans aren't really paying for them as much anymore. Like my observation is, and this is years long, even with an insurance, a commercial insurance plan, that's a good plan, you might still have to pay $3,000 more or more dollars primarily to have that psychic using the school. Yeah, school pays for it. Okay, but they're having to pay that money too. Right. So there's pushback, because it's money. Right, right. That's my take. Regardless, there's no there's no blood testing, imagery testing. All right. By definition, it's something that has to have been going on since childhood. Like if you are suddenly saying, like, I feel like I have ADD, but hey, I was focused, organized, and did fine in school. I could org I could handle all these different things, multitasking in high school, like, okay, that doesn't really add up. Okay, that's a different story. I'm not saying it's not possible. Because we can get into why this happens, okay. But it should be something that someone's as an adult, it should be something that's been going on since childhood, and at least in what we say two arenas of life. As a kid, it's easy home and school. As an adult, if you work at employed kind of work, then okay, maybe it's like work and home. But if you don't, if you're not employed or it's like part-time and you're scattered and whatever else, and it's very kind of like up to you, then it's kind of harder to tell. Right. You talk about the school grades, right? Connecting to that. That's what just makes it a lot easier in young people because you have this like very quantified concrete system and it's kind of like standardized compared to other kids.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

I always like to say you you threw out the term normal, right? And you use it in a couple different contexts. I always like to be point out this is not about what's normal or not, it's like what's commonly experienced. Okay. And that ties directly for me into this doesn't have to be our identity. Okay. There's something about not just the superpower part, but just a couple minutes ago you said something else where it it almost kind of inferred like how come they're able to get A's? I don't think I'm a n an average person. Right. How come I can't get A's and B's? Am I just not interested? Like, what's wrong with me? Right. Like, why am I not able to achieve more? You gotta remember it's in the relative reference range of the school system and all that, right? That doesn't mean it's a it's a uh reflection of your character or who you are, your identity, your persona, etc. Right. But that's a hard thing, especially for a young person. Because we're we're sort of like we're starting to figure out who we are and how we do in school and stuff and what the teachers say about you, like matters for most kids, right? And then the parents get uptight and all that sometimes, oftentimes. So there's a lot writing on that stuff, which if they're right or wrong, whatever. Okay. All right. Uh so uh let me just give you a couple stories of of phot uh just clinical stories professionally, and you can bounce back to me like how it resonates, either your own experience or friends' family experiences. I've definitely known people who let's talk about the creativity part. Okay. I will always remember I've had two patients over my 23 years today who they didn't one actually is on medication now, but both people did not want to be on medication originally. One was in his 60s, one was a teenager of the time. Okay. They didn't want to be on medication because they could tell it affected their creativity. One was a painter, one was a musician. Okay. And I if if they like were if it was a little bit of a self-prophetic experience like they thought it would and it they said it did, like I don't know. Okay, but let's take that off the table. So that's on my mind. But have I known other people who are like in the creative space of life, whether as a hobby or profession, and it didn't affect them to their awareness? Yeah, I've known those people too. Okay. But there's a possibility I always tell people, hey, it's a possibility. Okay, so that's why we're weighing the pros and the cons. Second point. You talk we talk about that sort of noise space, right? Or the piece about where you're saying, hey, is it just busyness of life, or is it really ADD? Yeah, that's where you go back to saying, well, as you already reflected on your own, is this something that was going on back then? Right? Look, I'm a big believer, we can talk ourselves into a lot of things, right? I'm just getting older, that's why I have aches and pains. No, it could be that you really do have arthritis, or no, it could be that statin that you don't realize is causing aches and pains. Okay, blah blah. We won't go down that road. That's another day, but we can talk ourselves into things, right? Like I'm tired, of course I'm tired. I have kids and I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and I'm all over the place, right? Oh no, oh, but I started hormones and all of a sudden, oh wow, that made a huge difference. I thought it was just life stress, right? Yeah. I thought like, oh, maybe I'm just busy. No, but as in high school, like, oh, I had a hard time then too, right? Right. You kind of gave the story away without me asking much. Right. Right? It's suggestive. Right. A big question when we think about the time frame thing, like child to adult, is like, okay, is it genetic? Okay. I don't know the answer to that. I know, as you you may or may not know, Jessica used to do research in psychiatric genetics. So she knows a lot about genetics of bipolar depression, ADD, anxiety, whatever. I don't remember that detail. I know there are some genetics around it, but I just don't love the topic about genetics, period. Right, right. Right. It's like it it makes us all feel like, well, we'll just throw it in the towel. Right. What can you do? Right. And that's without getting technical, that's just not the case. Right. Okay. Genetics is not the end all be all. So I just don't even like to talk about that. But if you've got multiple family members who are diagnosed or suspect to diagnose, then you have to wonder. Okay. You also have to then, yeah, you have to wonder. And as I said before, a lot of adults are diagnosed after their kids are diagnosed. All right. So what does it look like? What what kind of levels of dysfunction or what kind of turnaround stories can people have when they're treated, right? I'm just gonna give you the ones that always stand out to me. I still care for this uh individual who is maybe over 30 now. Man, I kid you, I mean, so oftentimes I cry think about this. As a junior, the dude was getting like D's. Started on like they knew they had the diagnosis, and I don't remember how this happened. It wasn't on my initiation. They started medication. Uh, in this case, they went on pharma medication the summer after junior year, and I s I if unless I have this wrong, it's not by off. It's I'm not off by much. I think they pulled an A- an honors physics as a

Medication Outcomes and Real Patient Turnarounds

SPEAKER_02 36:15

senior. Oh my god. And I was like, how the heck did you do that? Right. Now, I was so compelled, I asked to write that kid a uh a letter uh of recommendation for college. I was like, you have to understand what you see on grade and four from senior year only one semester, that's where they're at now. They started medication before that, and after before that, it's another world. Like it was so dramatic for that person, right? This person then ended up getting, they ended up going to a full-year college, did really well, and then they're then then they got into a prestigious like leadership position by was it Cotron Gamble or Johnson Johnson or some kind of major corporation? Like we're training you guys specially, and then when you're done, you get to like select where you want to work in the company. And it's a major, major company. Wow. I was like, oh my God, what a life change. Right, right, right. Back to the conform to society thing. Yeah, yeah. And someone else is like, well, like, who says everybody should like work in like big corporate America? I'm not saying that, right? Right, right. So from the relative perspective of having opportunities, at least, not saying success is defined by working for some big corporate America. Right, right. But just having opportunities, like, holy crap, that was like a complete lifetime game changer. Okay. Now bringing it more forward. Two years, I think it was two summers ago, I had two patients who I've known for a long time. I think like 15 and 18 years a piece, or 18 and 20 plus years apiece. They both said to me independently, they don't know each other, as far as I know. They both said to me, rant out of the blue one day. I'm here because I think I have ADD or AD issue, whatever. And I was like, Really? Because I've known you a long time, and I don't know that I had that on my radar. Right. And they went through, like, well, I saw the survey online, like social media and all that stuff. Right, right. Just like you were like, I my friends or family we're talking about, and all of a sudden I'm getting stuff on my feeds. Yeah, at least one, if not both of them, were like, hey, I went through these questionnaires, I click all the boxes, whatever, and I'm like, tell me what you experience. Just like we started, right? They're telling me the stories. I'm like, wow, you got a lot going on up there, more than I ever knew. And they're like laughing at me, like, I know, I told you I was kind of annoying up there. I was like, Well, I mean, your work's not mine, but here's the bottom line. Right. Complete life changers. Okay. One individual says to me, I've never felt so comfortable in my own skin. I mean, it was it was emotionally moving.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

On medicine.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

After being treated. But in this case, both of them were going on, they both went on pharma medication. Yeah. But I mean, it was like I I I I probably cried telling that story for like four plus months. Because when this person I've known for so long, they wrestled so much with so many things, anxiety and all peace. Anxiety is very common with ADD, by the way. Okay, they go hand in hand, oftentimes. And they're often misdiagnosed between the two, but they often go hand in hand. But when they were just saying, like, I feel so at peace with myself, I was like, oh my god, I like we would all love to just have that flow state for just for a day, to feel like I'm good, right? Especially when it's constant. Right. The other person was like, wow, I did not realize I was so much more of a contributor to a lot of relationship dysfunctions I've had on my ears. Like, right? Uh I've been told I wasn't listening, this, and that, but and I know that I wasn't, you know, I made some not so awesome decisions with the relationships I was in, but like I was a little bit more involved there than I realized. Even my family members have said, like, hey, you're here. We can tell, you're listening, you're engaging more, right? And these are adults, you and my age, we're in all in the same ballpark as these two people. All right. For me, it's not about pharma or non-pharma, because that becomes a big thing. The whole stigma around the pharmaceuticals, medications, whatever, you know, and mental health, we all know, still I think has a stigma. But that aside, I think we and I've talked about this before. Like, for me, it's just when you when a person can open up their potential and live to their fullest and enjoy and experience life to their fullest. I don't care. For me personally, if you if the person has a preference of pharma, non-pharma, whatever, cool. We can go different roads. But all I care about is that that person is getting the most out of life that they want. I'm not the one determining what is the most for you out of life. Corporate America, living in Timbuktu, you know, conforming to society, non-conforming society, I don't care. It's just what do you want? And that might change over your life chapters, right? So that's why when I start, when we start out and you go and I ask you, hey, do you want for different? Is it dysfunctional? You're like, no, not really. Okay. So that's why it was like, well, let me let you lead the conversation because who am I to determine like what you should or shouldn't do? Right? Now, a little tangent here, but you know, your friend who's like, you gotta try it, Mary Joe. Like, you know, who knows what you could accomplish and all that stuff, right? Right. Hey, it's up to you still. And a lot of us, I think that's just the human experience that we feel connected with other people who go through a similar experience and we want to see other people do well too. So if I've had this positive experience, I would love to share that and pay it forward and have someone else experience that too. But I'm projecting my experience on someone else, right? Right. Arguably. Okay. But look, I've had plenty of people who they fight that topic internally. Right. Not fight me. Right. I'm not fighting them. Right. They internally fight. Should I go on that? Like the number of people recently who fight the GLP 1 thing. That's a funny story. Okay, really funny story.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Can we talk about that next time?

SPEAKER_02 41:06

That's another side. That's we talk about GLP10. I love that story. But this one, same thing. Like, I don't want to do like, oh, it's a controlled substance, and people, you know, internal, what do people want to think about? What do I think about myself? And blah, blah, blah, right? But holy crap, man, when people are on another level and they're all of a sudden they're like, do you know how much cleaner my whole house is? Do you know how much less stress I have just because I don't see the mess in my house, in my room, or whatever? Do you know how much better I'm getting along with my parents or my kids or my siblings or my coworkers or whatever? It's like, God, I mean, I I'm all for diet and exercise and stress management, better sleep and the behavioral stuff, but we both know how long it takes and how much effort it takes to make those things happen. And we live in high-pace America. God help us try to execute those things and sustain them, get into the habit and sustain them. And I'm not, I know it's the easy way out if you want to say that. But man, it helps us. I mean, I've seen a number of people who they're better able to initiate and execute those behavioral changes. Once they start a medication or non-pharma, just to enable themselves to be able to move in that direction and then sustain better over time. And then it's up to them whether they want to continue that thing that they did, the intervention to start, right? So it's just it's a it's a passion for me, not because I liked pharma, not because like I have some particular affinity to ADD as a diagnosis. The amount of life change I've seen from people is astounding. And they're not all like that. Those are like highlight, you know, I'll go to the grave with those life stories for me, but they're just it's just a sounding. Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

That is so interesting to hear. It's it's a very positive outlook and life experience with these patients that you it's it's it's just uh it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Yeah. Sometimes, you know, so in these cases.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

So can I sign up or make an appointment to do the testing?

SPEAKER_02 42:53

The computer test is easy. Hey, look, actually, at the risk uh at the risk of doing this without having run it by the our our producer, okay? If somebody if somebody hears this and wants to have the testing done, we can arrange it. Okay. Okay. It's it's it's only like um 150, 180 bucks the one time on your computer at home 30, 40 minutes. Okay. I've done this with um I've I didn't start using that until last two years or so. Okay. But when we're kids, that's how we that's how we nailed it out more quantitatively. Oh my goodness. We have two kids who are

Lifestyle Limits, Inflammation, and Expectations

SPEAKER_02 43:21

on treatment. Okay. Uh my experience with pharma, non-pharma, I'll just say this, I I'm fucking bulldozing this. I've I've known people to be able to manage without pharma. I I personally myself, I like people to have bid on pharma as a comparison point. Okay. Because it takes more with a non-pharma. And my observation is it's just it's not as effective. There are people who prefer it. There are a rare people who don't tolerate the prescriptions.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

They have high blood pressure.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

When you say non-pharma, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Like uh alternative. Look, I'm a believ I'm a total believer, to be to be clear, because I I can I can feel the heat from many colleagues who are like, blasphemy, blasphemy, pharma or whatever. Okay. But I'm a total believer in self care and behavioral care. Okay. But I think I shot you that I think I shot you that slide from the conference or two weeks ago where a stinking nutritionist, yeah, a registered dietitian nutritionist at a very non like alternative medicine conference where we're All about root cause, functionalness, and blah blah. A quite anti-pharma community there. The nutritionist said, and I'm not again I and I'm aligned with this, let food be thy medicine. We talk about this all the time. As a nutritionist, she said, as a nutritionist, I don't know how much I can fight with that anymore. Wow. And then it's like, how much can we translate to other things? Okay, how much can we translate that to beyond nutrition into other aspects of life? Which which right? This is again back into the whole big picture stuff, too much for today. But if we get into like why, if I was wondering if you might throw the question, get I get this a lot. How come is it over-diagnosed? Why are we diagnosing all these people with ADD that we didn't 20 years ago?

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

It's a multi-factoral thing for me. One of the things, I'll just leave it at this, is that I'm a big believer. It's part of it's it's a part of brain inflammation that we as a population are experiencing much, much more than we ever did before. Inflammation, autoimmunity, it's all in the same vein. This is just one manifestation of that inflammation. Okay, we can talk all kinds of stuff about gut health matters, but again, if we want to take the approach of life management, right? Mindset, stress management, sleep habits, eating habits, exercise, God help anybody. Like I'm gonna be in complete awe and bow at your feet if you're able to execute that in the next week and sustain that consistently for the next six months. Right, right. Right. And then you and I both love this. God help you if you're a parent and you can get your 10-year-old to do it in the next even two weeks, even start it. Right. And how are you gonna control what happens when they're at school and their friend's house and all this kind of stuff, right? There's so many uncontrolled variables. The the crap in our foods, the pesticides, all the toxins, like God help us trying to fix that. Titus. If we want to talk about all the stuff in our water, even when it's filtered, is is it distilled? Is it just filtered? I mean, the amount of exposure and crap, and then the the stuff that's been passed on generation to generation, not just genetics, but in our microbiome that Jessica's done research on this stuff, the microbiome is passed on generation to generation. And the impact that has on our brain health, we are fighting humongous Goliath mountains to say, I'm gonna do this non-farmantly. Right. And I'm not against it, right? I'm just setting expectations clear.

SPEAKER_03 46:25

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Like if you're if you have a kid who's getting D's, the grades, you cannot undo those. That's my problem. You cannot undo your grades. If you're in fifth grade, I'm cool. You want to experiment on it, we want to trial this, trial that, behavioral stuff, herbals, B vitamins, fish oils, I'm awesome with all that stuff. If you're a sophomore in high school and you're pulling D's, your time is click ticking. If you want to go to college or you're like trying to get a scholarship for athletics and you're a sophomore in high school and you're getting D's, you don't have time. If you think you can pull off all those lifestyle behavior changes now and sustain that, God bless you. But I've never seen it as a high school student, right? And even the parents are on them, the high school student voices intention, all this stuff. It's just, we're in America. It's a rare bird. Maybe it's just the people I work with. Maybe I don't have that Christian population that they're like super go getters. I'm sure there are people like that. I just, it's just very rare. It's not mainstream America. Right. I'll say I'll say with 120% confidence, it's not mainstream America. So if we're mainstream America and we're hoping to do those things, like you just gotta know what you're up against and you've got to know the risks and consequence potentials, right? So anyway, that being said, it's just it's just too big of a battle, and there's factors that are out of our control. So that's why for me, I'm more of a fa I'm more in favor in most circumstances. Like, you know, if you're really if you're an adult and your work is in jeopardy, like I'm falling behind, my boss is constantly on me, I can tell I'm not keeping up with stuff, my reports are my my performance reports are not good, my relationships are falling apart. They're they're not talking about I think I have ADD, right? The adults are saying, like, I can't remember things. Like we talked, we were joking about pickleball. Like, like, how come I can't remember the score? Right? It could be a lot of things, okay? Right. But if it's like, I can't keep this, I can't remember the score, and uh life is kind of like I'm I feel like I'm catching all the balls falling off the table. I'm not able to keep the balls in the air anymore, I'm tired, I'm blah, blah, blah, I'm overwhelmed. It's like, wait, is it really that much busier than two years ago, though? I'm not sure really, come to think of it. But everything's like feeling like it's falling apart because life moves on. Man, there's a there's so many people's experiences where when we address that one thing, all of a sudden, it's not like the circumstances have changed. My capacity and potential to manage them and then move through and navigate them with more ease and then have more peace internally, that's what changes. And all of a sudden, now we've unlocked potential. Right. That's what I'm about.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

That's what I love. That's incredible. I've actually never spoken about those things in that kind of way. I've always talked about like just the testing, diagnosis, and you know, and then some of those stories just to say that, hey, there's some really meaningful scenarios that can come out of this. But the most recent scenario, I'm gonna one more and I'll show you. The most recent scenario.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

So keep going, I'm loving this.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

You know, you're learning a lot. In our brick and mortar primary care setting, we don't have turnover, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

And I don't over time, I don't see as many kids at all because they just grow older, right? And I'm not taking in new patients much, right? But I had a a middle schooler just recently, the the it got brought up to me, had a lot of these same conversations. We I and I had the same, you know, the same almost to a T, same conversations. They decided, yeah, let's just go ahead and trial. Just to experiment, lowest dose pharmaceutical medication for ADD. Three weeks in, I just this probably I think it was just last week, had a phone call about this. How things the mom's like, tell them, just tell them, just tell them, right? And and the girls talk top, and this is this is a very emotionally intelligent and you know mature young young woman. But when when a mom's telling me, it was beautiful, I walked in, they're sitting at the counter, they're doing their homework, and they finished, and and I didn't I didn't have to ask them to anything. I didn't even nag them. I didn't and it wasn't nine o'clock at night trying to get this and that done, right? It's not just that, it's not just that the parent is feels more at peace. It's that the kid is saying to them, like, life is easier. Yeah, homework it, like I get stuff done. I have extra time, I can I can hang out and socialize and whatever and not feel stressed. I can I'm I just life is just easier. Like, who doesn't want that for the kid? Now we can explore other options, but now we know what we're comparing against, right? Right. That's that's that's what I love. That's incredible. Right? The in and and the anxiety piece, really common. A guy allowed me to share his story. It's funny as heck. Like, Mark, my wife gives me three things to get to the grocery store. I write them down our list. I get to the grocery store. Dang, I forgot my list. I can remember most of them. I get down aisle number one. Oh look, there's Frank. Haven't seen Frank in a long time. Hey Frank, how's it going? I've after that conversation. Right, moving on. Crap, I can only remember two things now. Down the next aisle, oh look, we haven't bought that in a long time. It's on sale. Let me get that. Like, let's try that out. Moving on, like, crap, I don't remember one thing now. Next time down the next aisle, I can't remember any of them now. Like on my list, it's at home. Drives home to get the list, gets home. When I come back here for what am I doing here? That's an extreme scenario. But so many people tell me, like, oh my God, I can relate to the story, right? Exactly. On some level.

SPEAKER_03 51:07

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

And again, like we could talk about brain fog that are related to other topics. We can talk about inflammation, busyness in life, anxiety. But when someone cares about their their, they care about meeting other people's expectations, their spouse, their kid, their their friends, whatever, their whoever, they they they care to show up, right, in life. I want to be reliable. I want to be relied upon, but there's a they they know subconsciously they have a hard time doing that. It's 11 o'clock. I there was something this morning I told I told Sally I was gonna, what did I tell her I was gonna do? And it's not a conscious thought, but it's in the back of your mind. Right. There's something I was supposed to remember. There's something I was supposed to remember. And the day goes on, and now it's three, four, five things. There's things I was supposed to remember. I don't remember what they are. Like, oh my god, someone's gonna be pissed off at me. Who is it? Who is it? I don't remember. Right, right. It waits on you. Right. Right? And there's this, then there's a that's where the anxiety and that's the anxiety. That's the secondary anxiety. Yes, right. And there's this internal messaging all of a sudden of like, oh tight, right? And that's what I'm after with the kids, especially. Because when the kids don't feel confident, right, I told that middle schooler, like, you're this is what's gonna happen. You're gonna be able to do this, blah, blah, blah. If we're barking the right tree. Six months from now, you're gonna start developing self-confidence. Those things that you feel like you can't do right now, or you're like not so sure about, it's subtle and you won't recognize it unless I ask you or unless we talk about it. But all of a sudden you'll be like, I got this. I got that flow. I'm in that flow state. I I'm in a more flow state all the time because I'm not like telling myself subconsciously, I can't, I can't, I can't.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

That's a huge thing for me. That part is huge. It sounds like I'm selling you on trying to treat.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

You're selling me on pursuing the testing at least.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

At the very least, what I'm after is like Which happened? No, there's no.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

It's not like a commitment. Right. If a person finds out and then they treat and they're like, this is what that life's like. You just don't know what you don't know until you're on the other side. Right. And then if you're like, okay, I did that, and hey, there's times it's it's right, and other times I don't need that or don't want to do that. And that's another story, like how practitioners are about prescriptions and all that, if you go down that road. But now you can at least make a more informed decision, and now you've unlocked potential, at least to decide which directions you want to go. That's what I love.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Very interesting. This has been extremely enlightening to me because I again I've had conversations, but it's typically with other parents on the surface level with Bryce a little bit, on the surface with Jackson a little bit. But this is much more of an extensive conversation than I've ever had. Super enlightening. I see the benefit of just in the excitement. I'm actually, I, you know, I'm at a stage where it's like I'm kind of this open book where it's I'm really just like interested in learning more about myself, enlightening myself, and maybe going through this testing could be really revealing about maybe what's possible for me. I don't know. Or what's or what's not, you know, what's not possible, what's what's fine already.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Yeah, you know, I'll tell you, I saw I I never said to you even between us off recording. You know, we've talked about our kids quite a bit, you know, and I think we both have experiences of uh kids who yeah, they're they're school is not their forte. Right? Mm-hmm. I I love to see kids just be able to like school is just easier, okay? Putting aside the conformity to school and whatever else, okay, it is what it is, but like yeah, we we've seen that in our own family with school become like actually both both I said two. Yeah, both both cases we've seen that, right? One's older, one's younger. It it's a lot more meaningful for the older student. But it's it's it's just boy, for us as parents, it just takes another thing off our plate. It's like worrying. Or how do we help support that person, right? And now like we're seeing them grow into more flourishing of school interests, and then you know, where does that go down the road? Right now it there's there's an evolution that's emerging. There's an evolution and an emergence of where their life directions might go, and that's priceless. I mean, I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened without it, right? But predictably by track record history, it it was a harder road. It's a much harder road. And I don't know if they'll go down this road or not for sure that they're thinking now, but it's the is a coincidence that it's been like a year and now through a year of more schooling and and you know having this under the belt, now they have a more formulated, at least self-motivated plan and set intention and motivation about where they want to go. I don't know if that's coincidence. Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Anyway, it's funny. We're talking about the ADHD in this conversation, which again, I haven't had one that's at at in-depth like this. But you may had mentioned GLP ones like a few minutes back. And it's funny because it is very relatable to that.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

And the potential on the other side and kind of navigating that whole conversation, that process for someone to get to the point where they not necessarily need test. I don't know if they need testing to be on a GLP one, but like even to make that decision and enlighten yourself about what the potential is on the other side or what the path ahead could be, because the tide that you're fighting um in all these other categories of health and wellness and movement and all the things is a huge tide in like normal, you know, modern day society in order to like lose weight or move your body or like get over these humps with all these other ailments and and things. So, anyways, I wanna I'm gonna I'm gonna put that in our back pocket for our next conversation. Yeah. Because I think it relates to this conversation in a lot of ways, too.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

In more ways than you think.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:10

The mental health piece on that, we'll have to remember on I'll have to remember that. Well, I will. I will, because I bring that up a lot. But there's a there's an interesting mental health piece that we don't know why, and it's not every it's the minority, but there are people who they get a mental health benefit of the drip one that's independent of actual weight loss. But yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Well, it all ties into inflammation, too, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:30

Very, very, very plausibly.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

Very plausibly. So many interesting things that we know, life is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

Yes, I agree. This has been a wonderful conversation, and uh I'm gonna make an appointment to uh do some testing if that's all right.

SPEAKER_02 56:43

That's the the online test is easy. Yeah, we'll figure that out.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

Sounds good. First hand consultation time with a uh functional medicine practitioner or a uh second opinion. You could use some extra support or a different angle. You can find us at rootseekhealth.com. Um, our team would be more than privileged and honored to walk along inside you in your journey. And uh you'll find us here again. We'll do this again, Mary Joe.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Sounds good. Thank you, Mark. All right. Thanks, everyone.

Online Testing, RootSeekHealth, Closing

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Just the way you like