23. Hype or Hope? How to Spot Mold Misinformation with Mike Schrantz

If you've ever Googled "mold illness treatment" at midnight, desperate for answers, you already know how overwhelming it gets. The supplements, the sprays, the lab reports with pages of frightening health warnings, it can feel like you're drowning in information and still no closer to knowing what to actually do. This conversation is for you.

Dr. Mark Su sits down again with Mike Schrantz, IEP, the environmental professional he trusts most when it comes to what's actually happening inside the buildings where his patients live. Together they walk through real examples of mold-related products, lab reports, and remediation methods, and call it straight: hype or hope.

What You'll Learn in This Episode:

• Why some popular "mold and mycotoxin cleanse" supplements don't contain the one thing that actually matters for mycotoxin removal, and what to look for instead.
• How mycotoxin lab reports can overwhelm and even harm patients when the data is delivered without context, and what responsible interpretation actually looks like.
• The critical difference between killing mold and physically removing it, and why one of those approaches is widely accepted by the EPA and the other is not.
• Why AI-generated health information about mold illness may be making things worse, not better, and what to do instead of relying on it alone.
• How to slow down, ask better questions, and find a trusted professional before spending money on something that won't move the needle.

Key Insights:

One of the most important things Dr. Mark and Mike cover in this episode is the gap between a product's name and what it actually does. When a supplement calls itself a "mold and mycotoxin cleanse" but contains no binding agents, which are the compounds clinicians actually use to help the body clear fungal toxins, that name is doing a lot of work it hasn't earned. Neither Dr. Mark nor Mike dismiss these companies as bad actors. They simply ask the question every patient deserves to ask: where is the data, and does the ingredient list match the claim?

The mycotoxin lab report conversation is one of the most important in this episode. Mike describes working with clients who receive pages of alarming health information alongside their results, things like carcinogenic effects, developmental risks, organ concerns, without any framing around what those findings mean for them specifically. 

Resources & People Mentioned

• Michael Schrantz, IEP | Environmental Analytics Website: environmentalanalytics.net Podcast: IEPradio.com
• ISEAI (International Society for Environmentally Acquired Illness) Free remediation resources and one-on-one guidance documents available at iseai.org under "Get Help" > "Resources"
• Aerosolver — A non-toxic, DIY-friendly small particle cleaning product mentioned as an option for whole-home surface cleaning after mold remediation

Dr. Su and the RootSeek team work with patients across the country who are navigating exactly this: unexplained symptoms, labs that don't add up, and a conventional system that keeps telling them everything looks fine.

Ready to finally get answers? 

Book a consult with Dr. Su at rootseekhealth.com 

Download your free lab results guide at rootseekhealth.com/labs

Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only.  Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner. This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Clarity Matters

Dr. Mark Su 0:09

I'm Dr. Mark Sue and welcome to the Functional Medicine Reality Podcast. Join me and our community weekly as we bring you unfiltered health from inflammation to longevity, real stories, real people, real solutions. Experience real life health changes from both patients and practitioners, and learn how to turn cutting-edge information into real results in your own life so you can feel better, live longer, live healthier, and be confident and clear in your healthcare choices. Let's get real and get results. All right, hey everybody. Welcome to the Functional Medicine Reality Podcast again. Here again with another session with IEP Extraordinaire. I said it right this time. I botched that pronunciation last time, Mike. So the extra part. What's that?

 Mike Schrantz 0:52

The extraordinaire part you said wrong last time?

Dr. Mark Su 0:54

Yeah, I get like a box text in the pronunciation.

 Mike Schrantz 0:56

Didn't get that word wrong.

Dr. Mark Su 0:57

Not a word I use regularly. Only for you. Only for you. Maybe literally only for you. I don't know how much I use that word, okay? IEP Extraordinaire in Arizona. Mark Sue here, Doctor of Humans, Doctor of Buildings. We have gone through several sessions, several previous podcasts talking through a variety of topics that are specific to mold illness. It's a lot about gaslighting. We've talked about some of the debates, controversies, uncertainties in technicalities about testing, whether testing people, testing environments. We've talked about that a lot of this, the world of functional medicine in the specifically in the mold illness world is a moving, an evolving, it's a work in progress. It's an evolving, it's an evolving arena, and that therefore there's things are not binary. They're not black and white. There's a lot of gray. And for some people, that's uncomfortable, that it's not more clear-cut. But at the same time, with all the craziness out there, it's also a place of refuge and comfort that it's not black and white because we get a lot of the polarizing extremist kind of messaging through friends, family, social media podcasts, and other fair? Yeah, very fair, especially that last part which we're about to dive into. So yes. So how are you doing today? How was your week? I didn't even ask you before.

 Mike Schrantz 2:10

Good. It's Friday. Yeah, we uh boys had uh Cub Scout Pack meeting last night. And uh, so that was a lot of fun. It's been really busy. And to be honest, I literally blocked out half this day just to be here. This is always like one of my free therapy sessions that I get to have with a good friend and colleague, somebody who I respect, and somebody who over the years, Mark, just really been able to have that type of real talk that we've had. The stuff that a lot of people are afraid to have, maybe feelings of pride and security, and all that. And I know that we had a little pregame talk before the actual recording here. I'm absolutely excited to share some thoughts and insights to things that I'm guessing people have been struggling with for some time.

Dr. Mark Su 2:49

Yeah, no, back at you. It's the same, same. We uh yeah, back at you. And we haven't even, yeah, we're not gonna, we won't even have time post-recording here to talk about other stuff that we still haven't talked about for a couple of weeks that are unrelated but meaningful stuff for system stuff for our uh the community of practitioners we are responsible, have some responsibilities for and care about as patients and client care as well, et cetera. So same, back at you. Thanks for the uh much respect to you and thanks for your compliments. Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna jump right in today, right? We've talked about a lot of gaslighting stuff and and we've alluded to on categorical levels or concept philosophy levels to a lot of the stuff that we're trying to help people with, right? Our goal, one of our biggest missions and goals through the podcast as a whole, especially with these sessions between Mike and I, is to help people create clarity about truth telling, right? It's not specifically to try to slander or criticize or judge any one thing, person, business, company, whatever. It's not about that. What we care about is you as a patient, as a client, and you getting better. All what we care about first and foremost, above everything else, is you getting better. We don't even care if we're directly involved, if we're peripherally involved, if we never hear from you, we never meet you, if you get better and we've done something to help move that ball, we've fulfilled our service. You agreed, Mike? Amen.

 Mike Schrantz 3:59

There, there are way more people in need than any two of us or 2,000

Defining Hype Versus Hope

 Mike Schrantz 4:05

of us probably could handle. I'm just grateful to be able to clear up some of the confusion.

Dr. Mark Su 4:10

Yeah. Yeah. So we're gonna we're gonna shift a little bit today from what we've done in the past, right? We're gonna stay on the topic of mold illness as a whole, but we're also this, but we're gonna jump right directly into what we you may not remember because you've kind of inferred you didn't, you're inferring that you don't remember that you think it's my creation of this term, but you're the one who came up with this to my strong recall. We're calling this hype or hope. You don't remember? Did you you don't remember coming up with that? I will gladly take credit for it. I can't take credit for that at all. I my 100% recall is that was you.

 Mike Schrantz 4:40

You know what? It doesn't, jokes aside, it doesn't seem outside of the realm of possibility that I would have said something like that. I know I have a hundred other analogies that I've said before, some of them not appropriate.

Dr. Mark Su 4:50

You're much wittier, you're much wittier than I am. So you take the credit. This is Mike's terminology, hyper hope. And we're defining this as hype is because sometimes there's good hype, there's bad hype. We're talking about hype as in it's like a sales job.

 Mike Schrantz 5:01

I guess it's more of a negative. More of a negative. And we'll have some short qualifiers where we feel it's needed, but that's the general theme. Whereas hope is a legitimate thing of that, yeah, there's this is like very tangible, very grounded based off of what seems to us as science-based or application-based, appropriate to whatever it is we're going to talk about today. And that's what Mark and I were partially doing before this podcast was trying to keep ourselves honoring of that process because it's so easy in the grays, yes, to get lost in the weeds.

Dr. Mark Su 5:31

Yeah. So we use as in our minds, or at least in my mind, a template of you and I we're sports fans. So, like on the SPN, right? They've got this panel or talking heads. Here's the question: do you agree or you disagree? Is it thumbs down? Is it thumbs up? And they have got, they use these kind of analogies all the time, whether it's a thumbs or some other word, green light, red light, whatever. And so that's it's the same idea. And we know you just alluded to it, that a lot of this stuff is not so black and white, but we're gonna put our best stab at make our best attempt to keep it simple and just start with a hey, thumbs up, thumbs down, hope, hype, and then make very brief commentary that kind of encapsulates or reiterates, references a lot of stuff we've talked about to date, and we'll keep talking about in the future as well. Yep, let's do it. All right, so let's share a screen. Let's share a screen. Let's go into a few examples. And you got some stuff too, right? I got some stuff on deck here. I'll let you start us off, get us warmed up a little bit. Okay.

The “Mold Cleanse” Tonic Claim

Dr. Mark Su 6:20

All right, let's do that then. All right, so we'll just talk through when we're gonna swap. Okay, example one. I don't even remember how I came across this company and this product, all right? I was googling the other night within the last week before Mike and I did this recording. Here is a product called a mold and mycotoxin cleanse topic by company Zuma Nutrition. So again, look, we're not here trying to slander, judge, criticize anybody, et cetera. I'm just Googling something and saying, hey, what comes up? In fact, this was, I believe, was a sponsored ad on Google. All right. I'm thinking to myself, never heard of this company, never heard of this product, never heard any, literally never heard practitioner colleagues, never seen them at a conference, this company as a vendor or anything. So I'm curious. I'm being open-minded, but I already know I'm not familiar with it. All right. So that puts a little bit of like uncertainty or more of a negative, but I'm open and intentionally trying to be open to that I could learn something here, and who knows? And that's happened many times before. But I go right to the ingredient. Here's your ingredients. I don't know if this is Trump, but let me pull that out. Astragalus, maca root, grapeseed extract, rhodiola, Siberian ginseng. Okay, now first questions I'm asking myself. Like, all right, Mark, how familiar are you with these five ingredients? Yeah, I have familiarity with all five. Macaroot, I have the least familiarity with, and no, it's not new by name to me. And I can make some like one or two bullet comment on eat any of the other or any of the others, okay? But here's this collective thing. Okay, Mark, hyper hope. I'm just gonna start out. I'm gonna say this is hype. Okay. Initially I'm saying big time hype. None of this, when I hear mold and mycotox treatment, they're not saying treatment, of course, but they're inferring that it's to treat mold and mycotoxins in the layman's terms treat. All right, for me, none of these items have, as you and I've alluded to in other talks, and anyone in the mold illness world knows about, when we're talking about mycotoxins, the fungal toxins, we're talking about treating with binders, something that binds these toxins so we can eliminate them. None of these are binders. I actually double check myself to go into the go on, hey, hubmed.gov, went to Google things out, AI did things. Yeah, I just don't want to double check myself. Do any of these things actually have binding properties I didn't know about? I didn't find anything. Okay. So I say, okay, this is big time hype. Having giving credit back to the company, as I dug around a little bit more, won't go digging right now. They have another site that lists like some like a glossary or information, educational information about the ingredients in their various products, not separated by the products, but just all their various ingredients. They are very transparent, saying not common something along the lines of not commonly used to treat, not a direct antifungal, or isn't used to directly treat fungus or mold or mycotoxins. They actually say that. Or maybe even to bind, because you were talking about binders a moment ago. Yeah, I don't remember, I won't say off the top of my head, I don't remember them saying that, but ultimately they were honest in that regard.

 Mike Schrantz 8:46

They just don't have it on this page, which is important because this is the page that people this is the landing page. This is gonna be the desperate patient who's just trying to figure things out on their own, are gonna do a Google or whatever sort of search engine search, and they're gonna find something like this. And it just sounds so natural, it sounds so non-consequential to tr take. And the hype for me is no offense to the company. This might be the greatest product in the world, but if I was to agree with you, which I do that this is hype, the first thing I think about is where's the data? Where's the published data to show that this is actually helpful to, if you scroll back up to the top, to cleanse? Was that the word? To cleanse via this tonic approach.

Dr. Mark Su 9:26

And and then so to further gray the topic, they do comment on their educational page, which I could have also derived in my mind. I don't know if I did, but these are helpful in various regards. Let's just simple example a stragalus immune boosting. There is data on how the stragalus helps benefit the immune system. And so, therefore, then the immune system can help treat, naturally treat mold or mycotoxins. So we can make that argument that indirectly it treats mold and mycotoxin. But hey, Mike, could drinking more water benefit treating mold and mycotoxins through your immune system? Absolutely. Or vitamin C or vitamin D.

 Mike Schrantz 9:57

That and that's the elephant in the room. Is it it's you want it, we want to educate. I I want to say what I would do. Yeah. What I would do if this was my website, just given who I am, is if I believe that this together could indirectly support the treatment or recovery of your body through the mechanisms that you just described. I would want to state those in bullet point form on the landing page here so that the so that the potential buyer understands a couple of things. Number one, that I'm transparent. I'm not trying to sell them something that that that's snake oil, not to imply that this is snake oil at all. That's not my point, but it's that you don't know that. And I think that we have a responsibility, especially in the mold community with all the oversaturation of information to educate people because people are getting smarter. And now we're getting to the point where they're asking questions. It's like, what is this doing? Because you you said it yourself. You could find the individual ingredients and see an indirect thing like the vitamin C, the water hydration benefits of all that. It's like, yeah. So do I drink, do I take way more vitamin C and every other thing that can further support it? I think that what I would do is just list directly why they think it would help the person. So there is no mission, there's no confusion on what the product is. Not and Mark, just real quick, I'd love to do it.

Dr. Mark Su 11:11

Less or hopefully lesser confusion.

 Mike Schrantz 11:12

Yes, thank you. Thank you. Less confusion. Fair, fair, bear with me. And then the other piece of it, and not to go on another topic, but absolutely related to this, is are we advocating that patients go out on their own and just buy stuff that is hope versus hype? Or do we want them to go to their clinician to get guidance?

Dr. Mark Su 11:30

Yeah, a brief, because we yeah, we hadn't talked about that before, but let's for me right on the spot here. I would say look, I am a proponent, I am a supporter of people who are trying to treat themselves. All right. I know there's plenty of people who legitimately don't have funding to or feel so in a bind that they don't have capacity or they're it overwhelms and overstresses them to go find a whether a human practitioner or environmental professional. I'm not against people treating themselves, but back to what we said before. If you're only mildly sick, hey, go for it. Okay, you have time. If you not a this is not medical advice, medical medicine. The qualifier, okay, the qualifiers as a concept for the general population. I'm okay with that. But if you're really sick, like you're not gonna, those people are not gonna get much benefit treating themselves in almost all likelihood, and they're only perpetuating their suffering. And the longer it is, the harder it is to turn around. That's my opinion. Yeah, okay, fair enough. I like that answer. Yeah. So for me, this is hype, but I actually do understand where it's coming from on an indirect basis. It's just a misfire or for me on the naming. It's implying too much with a name, and that they're I'm giving that a big hype. Not attacking the company, just saying, I I have a hundred percent confidence that any of our colleague practitioners who treat mold illness would agree. Hey, there's benefit in these ingredients and assuming they're integral that they're putting in there what they say they're taking putting in there and they're getting it from good sourcing, etc., taking all that assumption, not to say it's a bad product, just not it's a misfire on the name in that for that reason. I'd give that a hype. All right, can I go to another one?

Recovery Kits And Binder Basics

Dr. Mark Su 12:50

Do it and then we can either flop or however you want to do it. All right, this one, I'll make this briefer. So there's here's another just random finding. I this might have also been a sponsored ad on Google. I can't remember, and whatever I Googled. So this right off the bat, I say to myself, hey, look, they've got a six-item kit here. And that might have, there might be, if that's intentional for the purpose of helping somebody legitimately at from a heart, I can see that because a lot of times we do have to stack a lot of things together. We've talked about that before too, right? Decision making for patients, a how many things are you willing to take at one time, et cetera. Because you can't, hey, we won't attack a fungus, do we want to attack fungal toxins? Do we want to help the body like with detox and drainage? And so you're gonna add things together. So off the bat, again, I don't know this company, never heard of them. So it's a little bit more of a there's a skepticism up front because I come from a place of skepticism, just who I am. And then I see this, and I go, hey, there might some be some that's a positive, maybe let's check it out. We're not gonna go through all the details here, okay? But so I see butyrate, very familiar with butyrate, but I wouldn't think of it as a like heavy lifter for treating mold or mycotoxins, fungal toxins. Binder blend formula. Ah, now we're talking about binders, right? And they do comment here. Charcoal, you and I both know about that. Chlorella, another lots of advocacy for that. Clay, another binder. Hey, this is assuming it has what it has in there, and I'm doubting it. I'm just saying if it does, and it's some kind of proprietary formulation. So we don't really know details, but hey, in principle and concept, like now we're speaking the language. That's the point, right? Compared to the first item, the first company, that first product, now we're speaking the language with buying. Then we go on down below. Okay, foundation formula, what's that about? Now they're trying to support oxidation, they're oxidative stress, they're trying antioxidants and helping with detox. Whatever this is, again, it's proprietary, so they don't really get into too much detail. But hey, there's at least validity in concept with some of these things, again, in a package where they're not just saying this is the single item that's gonna treat mold and mycotoxins. It's part of a package. I can buy that. Okay. Glutathione, again, we won't get into that, but arguably one of the biggest detoxer benefits for the body. So again, I say to myself, this one, I'm gonna just summarize it and say, Mark, hyper hope, mold and biotoxin recovery. Never heard of the company. I'm still gonna say hype though, because just because I don't know them. Okay, so it's a hype based on lack of familiarity as opposed to the first one. It was hype, but based on the name doesn't match. I don't like the it, it doesn't, it doesn't jive. It's not the best practice by any means. It's too far off base. This one, there's some foundational rationale and et cetera, et cetera. It's hype until proven otherwise. If hey, somebody in the company sees this and they want to reach out and educate me, educate us, or whatever, or other colleagues start talking about that and then I start getting stories back, or we start seeing any kind of even anecdotal data or case reports or whatever, anything, I'm happy to change my mind. Even with the first product, I'm happy to change my mind. But this one, there's more likelihood that I'll change my mind. So it's hype for now.

 Mike Schrantz 15:26

Mark, let me ask you a quick question about this. If a lit if the patient was out there and they just got this on their own, again, we don't have to turn this into a big story or novel. I'm talking quick bullet points. Yeah. What would be the potential consequences, negative consequences to them taking that?

Dr. Mark Su 15:42

I'd say for both the first and second one, it's really just not getting better. Okay. But the qualifier, again, is if they're sick enough, they still might not get better, even if they were taking something that I would have given them. They may not feel better that quickly or whatever the case may be.

 Mike Schrantz 15:55

So not that I'm gonna hold you, not that you can predict the future and that you can provide a 100% guarantee, because I know life's complicated and full of grays, but in with either of these first two companies, as there are a reasonable potential for games to be made that they could actually make things worse by taking them. Yeah, that's a really good question. And I don't mean to put you on the spark. I'm just thinking if I was a patient, I am a patient, and I had no clue, I'm like, hey, the molten biotox recovery kit, this is what it sounds like I got. Yeah, I actually make things worse.

Dr. Mark Su 16:24

Yeah, I would say with these particular items here, so yeah, credit to both of the companies, all right, or support in that regard. Off the top of my head, I yeah, on a first pass, just thinking it through, I'm not so worried that someone's gonna be worse. Okay. The categorical response of how someone could be worse is that they're not getting better. And so with time, they're getting worse because the problems aren't being addressed. Okay, fair enough. But in terms of would these caused harm with the ingredients, I'm not so worried about that. Okay. Easy. Do you uh do you want to flop to another option or should I go up to another?

 Mike Schrantz 16:51

Let's do one more on yours and then I'll cue up the one that I want to bring up.

Dr. Mark Su 16:54

Okay,

A Credible Guide To Therapies

Dr. Mark Su 16:55

yeah, let's do this one. So here's uh just a comparison contrast. So this is a website that's actually from a lab company. All right, a lot of practitioners use that. This is a very known website and business entity called Rupa Health, now owned by FullScript as a supplement warehouse online distributor company of sorts. We won't get into that detail. But this is a the point is this is a company that their business is to help facilitate lab testing. Okay. They're a they're not a lab company, they help distribute and facilitate lab testing. Yet here's a blog site. And I think it's not a good intent to educate either patients or practitioners as to about the topics that they have lab testing business pertinent to, so that there's some context about what they're trying to help people with. That's where I would come from on an optimism side. And let's not get into all the details here, but they speak the language. Easily they speak the language. And this one is medically reviewed, reported by this naturopath doctor, okay, acupuncturist also. So it's not shocking. This company, we know well. If you don't know it, I'm it would be a little surprise me if you didn't know it, but regardless, the practitioner community, everyone knows Rupa Health. It's a well-credible company. They have a lot of credit reputation on the line. They've put a lot of work into making themselves be credible and reputable. And the right up here, I'll just say as a whole, reflects that. Okay. The comparison contrast here of curiosity compared to the the first two products we just showed. This blog site is talking about what works and doesn't work. Okay, that's a strong statement in the world of gray. And here we are. Here's effective therapies. And they're not all prescription medications, even though they say medications. Cholestyromine, that's a prescription. You and I all know about this. This is like heavy surviving mold, SERS community therapy. That's like the G, right? The G, are you, if not one of the two. But it's this is a prescription. That's a binder.

 Mike Schrantz 18:30

Okay, now I might have been playing with some things before cholestyramine, but that was the one that really came in that everybody. To your point for educating me.

Dr. Mark Su 18:36

Charcoal, which was in that second product we mentioned, that's heavily touted and supported by practitioners. We get into this nasal sprays. This is a prescription nasal spray, so it's a totally different kind of avenue. We won't get into detail as to where that plays, what role it plays in the whole this whole topic and this topic. Hey, glutathione came up again, right? Again, so it's affirmation about the glutathione from the second product. But the point here is that among those four, you we didn't see anything from the first product at all, right? That is in this list. And then we saw maybe one of the four in of these four that are in the second product item list. Right. The bottom. So if I'm a patient, all of a sudden I'm like, wait a second, this company says this is what works and doesn't work. And they didn't list anything from the first two companies. So what does that say? There's some confusion there, or maybe there's some discrepancy. Does it reflect badly on the first two companies? I don't know. That's up to the patient's perspective. But for me, this page as a whole, definitely hope. All right. They speak the language, they meaningfully, I don't want to say accurately, but strongly reflect the practitioner community's approach as a whole to this topic of mold illness. So even though it's a little bit like a lab company talking about treating people and what works and doesn't work for treatment, which seems a might seem a little off-base to some people as a lab company. I still give it credit. I give this hope.

 Mike Schrantz 19:44

Right on. Yeah, I don't necessarily have a big disagreement. Scroll down just a little bit more, if you don't mind, on the antibiotics. Yeah. So that's obviously one of those topics that in our industry has been given a lot of, but it almost feels like politics sometimes, Mark. There's a lot of people that are real pro.

Dr. Mark Su 19:58

Yeah, these I like kept it simple because these this starts to get into some questionable stuff, antihistamines, antibiotics, and anti-inflammatory things.

 Mike Schrantz 20:04

What's interesting, and to your point, I'll keep it simple too. I smell what you're cooking, is just to say that they at least have a conversation of context. They don't just flat out say bat for good. They open it up. And I think I like that, which gives me hope because I think that this world is not black and white, and though it needs to have deeper discussions. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Su 20:22

Here again, they go into some of the things that probably cross over to the first one again. But so they get into more detail, but overall, I get this a I get this hope.

 Mike Schrantz 20:28

I want to share something with the audience next on this this next hyper hope thing. And I'll maybe I'll accept the stage for a minute

Lab Reports That Trigger Fear

 Mike Schrantz 20:35

or so, which is a lot of times, Mark, in my industry, people are coming to me to assess their building, right? So the doctor of the building, and it's an art beyond the science. Yeah, we know fundamentals, keep the house dry, look for areas where there's been moisture intrusions and we're thinking about mold growth. But a lot of times, coupled with the environmental piece is the health piece, right? Like, why are they there in the first place? People don't call me because they're bored and they just want to chat with me. They usually call because there's some motivation, there's some push. And a subset of that is specifically urinary or blood testing for mycotoxins or allergenic response, like antibodies and that sort of thing. And what I want to bring up, and I'm gonna share my screen here in a brief moment, is this topic of height versus hope. And really, and I'll have you bring in your thoughts on this too, Mark, but this idea of getting this information, a lot of times patients will receive a result. Urinary mycotoxins are classic. And I don't necessarily even, and I'm happy for you to bring it up, Mark, in terms of what your feelings are about the validity of them. But I specifically wanted to focus on the report itself. I get people that are so triggered, and I'm gonna show you what I mean right now because I think I've kept the audience in suspense long enough. There isn't there is so much suspense here. I could do this.

Dr. Mark Su 21:50

Yeah, while you're doing that as context, we've taught we had a whole session for anybody who hasn't seen that before. We had a session on a podcast session on urinary mycotoxins. So we're not gonna get into all that detail again. I'm on the Context, but we cover this in meaningful length on some of the controversies or debates around it. But here's an actual report from one of the mycotoxin lab companies.

 Mike Schrantz 22:08

Exactly. And again, I want to be clear about something. This is not about overtly complimenting or over or bashing at all any particular company. It's about what we are seeing day in and day out. And what I'm going to ultimately say is height is this rush of information. Here's what I mean. The stage is set to where someone will take a urinary mycotoxin result. They will get the laboratory data back. And on the pages that follow, sometimes usually the very next page, there will be information about the mycotoxins. And you can see it if you're looking at the screen right now, that if you start reading this, you'll hear you'll start seeing things about having negative impacts on growth of children and pregnant women and carcinogenic effects and org issues with organ transplants, if that's an issue, and so forth and so on. And it what we often see is that this information not being delivered with proper context. And so many clients that I work with who are asking me about mold and have created their own associations with concentrations, and that I truly must be mold-free or mycotoxin free, even though we're living in a world mark. I know you know that where we're surrounded by mold mycotoxins like background levels, but they're so overstimulated. And stuff like this without proper context or delivery as to what we really can say about your mycotoxin exposure has oftentimes resulted in more of a freeze, the whole fight or flight freeze thing. The limbic systems where they get overwhelmed. So I want to open it up to you, but I want to say a lot of this to me is hype that causes it a lot of confusion and overstimulation, which has downstream negative effects in the process for the person as they're trying to figure out what to do next in their home. And that journey that they're going through emotionally, chemically, and all that, I think could be a lot, could be alleviated, certainly in a significant manner if stuff like this was presented better context.

Dr. Mark Su 24:07

So just to highlight it a little bit here, I'm circling my cursor here. The neurotube defects, that's the developmental stuff. Down below, it's easy to talk about like fertility disorders, breast enlargement, fermentization traits in males. Like, yeah, a lot of that's easily, as we say a lot last in the past, gaslighting. It's not we've decided it's not fear-mongering per se, because we don't have any reason to think they're per it's not really presented in a way that they're purposely trying to for for marketing or sales or whatever, trying to fear monger people. So let me just go turn around to you and say, ask you. So hyper hope. You're you said you you look at this as a hype.

 Mike Schrantz 24:35

A hype for sure, because to me, and I know I said I'd come up with a better analogy, but Mark, at the risk of having our post-production eliminated, to me, this is like giving a gun to a five-year-old.

Dr. Mark Su 24:46

Yeah.

 Mike Schrantz 24:46

And what I mean by that is you're giving serious information that probably qualitatively is correct by the studies. I have a book right here on mold and mycotoxins right now, but there's the application, the context of how to use that information is poorly, in my experience, and certainly in these examples, is not being delivered in a way that would make that individual feel like they're comfortable with it. And that's the part that I have problems with when I see stuff like that other page, or I see stuff like this. It's not that it qualitatively isn't true, but where's the context? Yeah. If you ever wanted to scare the hell, intentionally or not, out of a client, just give them this page. And I why am I bringing that up, Mark, in case it's not abundantly clear already? It's not about the labs not wanting to do a good thing. Cheers to them for trying to seek the truth and help patients become aware. It's overwhelming them with information that this might not actually impact a significant majority of people. I am not saying mycotoxins aren't a problem. What I'm saying is, do we really need to throw this overt information that leads a lot of the client population that I deal with down a very dark rabbit hole that I often wonder did they ever need to take in the first place?

Dr. Mark Su 26:01

Yeah.

 Mike Schrantz 26:01

It's points, good points.

Dr. Mark Su 26:03

It's good arguments.

 Mike Schrantz 26:04

So that's my thought on that one. And I know we can we promised we wouldn't go down other rabbit trails. So I'll just say hype on that

Remediation Killing Versus Removal

 Mike Schrantz 26:10

one. Can I bring up one more different topic, Mark? Okay. The other thing that I want to bring up is now we're gonna get into the topic of remediation. One of the biggest hype versus hope topics, or just topics in general, right? Is that of killing mold versus physically removing. At large, the mold industry agrees that physical removal is the way to go. Even the EPA on their websites, and there's multiple sources within the CDC, is the same way, has information that says killing mold's not enough. It can still be allergenic, potentially toxic. The issue is to physically remove it. And certainly more well-accepted industry standards such as the ANSI certified or accredited IICRC S520. For those of you who don't know, that's a voluntary mold standard for remediation that a lot of companies follow. And usually the majority of insurance and companies accept will promote physical removal. So I'm just laying the stage here. We are getting a lot of people that are asking us questions from companies that promote killing. Now, I'll talk more about that, but oftentimes what it also results into is the expensive, like they're saying, hey, you could rip out your kitchen, but that could cost a lot. How about we leave everything in place and apply this product that will go in there and kill the mold on contact and other claims like it won't return for a certain period of time. Yeah. The more convenient route. Certainly. And very attractive. And usually from a price standpoint, is usually significantly lower too. It's a win-win from the initial, if you were to believe everything. My concern, hype versus hope, is that it initially comes off as a lot of hype. My my suggestion to companies like this, and we don't know all of their inner workings. All we know is what's on their landing site, the main page that's going to get the most amount of attention in whatever that amount of time that person's going to initially spend on that page. That we, in until a company can show and educate how killing it, make making the mold score non-viable, eliminated all of the inflammatory concerns that are published to cause issues to people, those that are susceptible, whether they're dead or alive, and that the EPA even says dead or alive, it's still this. So we need to remove it. We need to address that because it's creating of the top three or four issues that I deal with, where it's a topic of is this really helpful or hopeful, or is it really overwhelm or extreme, like height? This is top two or three. And so to land the airplane, I think that this issue of killing and focusing on killing for the vast majority is a hype issue, and that we need to bring more awareness in the community that promote killing need to bring their third-party peer-reviewed published studies that show how somehow, and this legitimately killing the mold absolutely eliminates further exposures, regardless of your susceptibility.

Dr. Mark Su 29:07

Yeah, this is, I mean, for me, from again, not in your profession, but so for me, I'm just here, I would hear it as hey, if I kill the mold that's there, but I'm not, it's not killing, it's not wiping it out enough that the source origin can still regrow, then it's still just like a band-aid.

 Mike Schrantz 29:22

And what if it does kill? Let's say that maybe we find research that is finely supported that, and I don't mean from a pathogenic standpoint, a lot of people will bring up Mark that, hey, I mean, it could have created aspergillosis in your lungs, which is a growth issue where the mold literally germinates in your lungs and grows. And okay, I would agree if you made it, if you killed that for that situation, but that affects a very small percentage of the population. Usually the people that affects are those that are extremely immune compromised, typically in hospitals or recovery rooms, not your average individual, because our immune systems are strong enough by design to fight that. My my other point, though, which is what you just brought up, is let's just say it was about killing, and that was the main focus. Okay, that's great. So, what you're telling me is that you have a product that's not just strong enough to kill or make non-viable the mold that's currently there, but then offer a guarantee that it will prevent growth at that site that's been treated for say a year and a half. How is that product that has that sort of efficacy not potentially harmful to the individuals, the occupants, the little toddler that's on their hands and needs touching the surfaces and putting it in their mouth? Yeah. What sort of human trials studies have you done to show that? Expect the real postularity. Exactly. Yeah. And I, and again, it's not, I want to be clear, it's not about the company that, an example, the company I showed, because I know a lot of companies, part of the challenge is that they actually do different services. They'll do, yeah, they'll do it this way for an insurance loss, but they'll do it this way for somebody who needs medically important remediation. What we're saying is we need to speak up. And to me, that's why it's a hype, is because we see a lot of clients who will do that work and then they'll retest their home. It'll show really bad, high-elevated concentrations of mold after it was treated. And they'll, and then they'll usually have a story where they said, I went to my doctor, they're saying I'm still being exposed, which correlates with that finding. And it's causing a lot of loss in the patient's time, money, and energy. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Su 31:15

Yeah. And I love that how you close that brought that at the end. Because we've talked about that before too. It's not just about helping. Ideally, we would love people to be able to get better faster, right? A lot of people will get better one way or another, but faster. And if someone is using this method to treat their home or to treat themselves, and could it be helpful, especially indirectly, like the first product we use? Could it be helpful? Okay, maybe. But if it's going to be the slow road and it's 10 times slower, then you just endured 10 times the amount of suffering, then something that's more best practice, right? That clinicians or IEP professionals know about, right? The efficacy and reduction of suffering, which includes efficacy reducing the time of suffering, we're all about absolutely.

 Mike Schrantz 31:52

And that's and that that's a great point. Thanks, Smart, for bringing that back around full circle. Is it's not just the direct questions or concerns and show me the data to help support that. Cause at the end of the day, that's what you get into, but it's also those unintended consequences. And even sometimes I don't remember that concept of hey, because you did this, you now delayed your process going down a rabbit hole that you should have never gone in. You could have healed two years sooner, six months sooner, 10 years sooner if you had better information.

Dr. Mark Su 32:19

Yeah. And then the compounding of that stuff can we you asked me a question earlier. And so similar idea, but then if it prolongs the suffering, and because it's an evolving and can be compounding and progressing condition, then

Practical Rules And Next Steps

Dr. Mark Su 32:30

that I could have that can have negative consequences too.

 Mike Schrantz 32:33

Yeah. How'd that go for you? Really good. I think what I'm hoping that the audience is hearing today is, and I know we're just opening up the doors to what could be months-long continuous conversations of hyper hope is the awareness piece. It's slow down to ask the questions, is certainly it's our opinions. What do we think? I know people trust us with our knowledge and our experience, and I hold that in the highest regard, but it's also self-educating of are you asking those questions? Does it make sense? And I wouldn't just rely on AI to help you determine whether or not it's legitimate or not. Whenever you have the ability to reach out to any sort of resource that you trust, it could be a mark, it could be a mic or somebody like that. It's not about us. And I know you and I always like to overtly disclaim that because we don't want this, it's not about a sales pitch. It's just about making sure that you're making a good informed decision. And it really is awkward at times because I feel conflicted. I want to speak my truth and say, I'd love to speak with you because if you're getting ready to hire a company that just wants to spray to kill, or from the clinical standpoint, I don't play doctor. If you're about to treat yourself, and I like what Mark said, I like what you said earlier. If you're relatively healthy, but you're kind of trying to deal with a couple little things and you want to do your own initial supplement thing that you can buy online to help. I don't really have people do that all the time. With I think I need some then some vitamin D ear. I don't have a problem with that. I think my problem is my bias, Mark, is that I deal with people who are really sick. Yeah. And so it's trying to say, hey, if you're really sick, yeah, don't just read the landing sites on people that sell these surfaces. Slow down and ask as trusted individual because there is a lot of hope out there. But unfortunately, there's a lot of people that throw the hype out to take advantage to make you think it's hope.

Dr. Mark Su 34:17

Yeah. Yeah. I would I I second then wind this down by saying, so number one, I love the in your comment about AI. One of my biggest worries in the background that we've never talked about is, but it's easy to agree, no doubt, is the more miss, the more misfires out there, the more hype material out there, AI is built on whatever is out there, right? And we don't, we can't control what goes into as the input. So if people are starting to lean more and more on AI over time, but the input, if it's trash in, then we're gonna get trash out. So there is a danger to more and more lesser or poor or inaccurate, outright inaccurate or false information per se, and AI just regurgitating that in some other new way over time. Yeah. I think as summary points, I think we could probably say here on the spot as take-home points. Yeah, things are gray. There's there aren't black and whites, but we're gonna make attempts to simplify and point out things. That's that was our intent here, just to say, hey, gotta make it a thumbs up or thumbs down, hyper hope. And yeah, if you're a person who I think easy take home number one point, if you're a person who is sicker, or if you just want to do it right the first time around, then getting help is you're not gonna go wrong. Okay. Or you're not gonna go as you're not likely to go as wrong as if you're doing that's yeah. Odds are, yeah. Odds are you're not gonna go as much as doing it on your own. If you're not as sick, you have more room to it's a little more time, a little more playroom. But as we said before, that's a threshold we can't like decide for people. Yeah. Number two, unfortunately, is a lot of the stuff is an evolving and moving target and it's a work in progress. And if I'm a lay if I'm part of the lay public, if I'm a patient and I'm just looking at some of the stuff online, like I can't tell one thing from the other. I don't know the lay of the land. I don't know what's known to practitioners or not, what's a new company, what's an old company, whether it's building remediation or it's a product to treat a person. I I can't tell the difference. Unfortunately, people are kind of left to their own devices, and you alluded to it. Unfortunately, that's just it's just the nature of the it's just the way the world is right now.

 Mike Schrantz 35:59

There's a lot of with people, Mark. I'm like, I don't know of any company or service that on let's say on their website says, eh, we're not that good. We wouldn't really use us. Everybody always puts their best foot forward, and there is the bias intently is how do you differentiate between 10 different companies that are saying stuff that sounds good, yeah, but it's not.

Dr. Mark Su 36:18

Yeah, I think you that's the best word. How do we differentiate? And we that I think that's the bottom line number three is we're there's no way we could ever, you I, whatever this podcast or even our whole colleague community, there's no way we could speak to everything out there. It's impossible. So we're just gonna keep moving forward over time and pointing out various pieces of hype versus hope with the intent that people get better, have more clarity, truth telling, and be able to help people move better, move forward faster to get better faster. And hopefully, inherent in some of the principles that we're bringing out in these hype and hope examples, people will pick up on those nuances over time.

 Mike Schrantz 36:51

Fair? Yeah, I love it. That's what we got to keep on doing. We got to be a voice of reason and sanity. Let's bring the hope. Or the good hype. You've brought that before.

Dr. Mark Su 36:59

The positive hype. Yeah,

Where To Get Help And Send Examples

Dr. Mark Su 37:00

positive hype. Yeah. So yeah. So if you're a person who, as we've said all along, this isn't a sales pitch, as Mike said, either. But obviously, we are available for service. If you're a person who is looking for some help for the first time or you need some second opinion or additional feedback, thoughts, rootseekhealth.com is where you can find us and and we'd be happy to be of service to you and to support you in whatever way. Otherwise, if we don't hear from you, but you find this information helpful, fantastic, feel free to pass it on to other folks as well. Where people are suffering, they often find other people who are suffering. So we know there's communities of people out there who don't have a voice and don't are a bit unaware, uneducated, et cetera. So we'd love to do your friends and family a service and be of benefit with them to pass this along as you feel led. Lastly, if we Mike and I are going to plan to keep doing hyper hope over time, not even specifically to do with mold illness. So we'll start to stretch that out beyond mold illness, which is what we've been focusing on all this time to date. But if you've got things you can you want to put before us, websites, podcasts, whatever material, blog sites, email ads, whatever it is, we would love and encourage you to send stuff us to us, and we'll happily use that as examples and fodder in future hyper hope episodes. Sound cool, Mike?

 Mike Schrantz 38:07

Yeah, yeah. I that I was actually hoping that you were going to say that because people that are listening right now, I realize we might only have touched the surface. So please, yes, send us your if you have a legitimate concern or just a question, send that our way. Yeah, and we will do our best to hit it head on, hyper hope. And if there's any sort of disclaimers that Mark and I are trying to avoid so we can be as black and white as possible for you, we will certainly bring up the considerations of what we know and what we don't know. But yes, send it our way.

Dr. Mark Su 38:36

Yeah, awesome. I like it. Blessings to you, man. Same to you, brother. Thanks for your time. Look forward to the next one. Same to you, as always.

 Mike Schrantz 38:43

Just the way it's